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View Full Version : Somebody Tell Granholm...


Robin
February 13th, 2008, 1:23 am
I found this article insightful, thought I'd share:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB120277561232960623.html?mod=opinion_main_review_and_outlooks

---Quote (Originally by Wall Street Journal)---
*States of Opportunity*
February 12, 2008; Page A16

An old adage says high taxes don't redistribute income, they redistribute people. For new evidence look no further than migration patterns within the United States, as documented in a new survey by the moving company United Van Lines.

A record eight million Americans -- some 20,000 people every day -- relocated to another state last year. So where are these families headed and why? The general picture is this: Americans are continuing to flee the Northeast and Midwest, while the leading destinations continue to be Southern and Western states.

The United Van Lines study finds that *the biggest population loser last year was Michigan, where two families moved out of the state for every new family that moved in.* Americans are also fleeing New York, New Jersey, Ohio, Pennsylvania and Illinois. Without interviewing the departed, it's impossible to know the reasons for this outward migration. No doubt overall economic prospects, climate, quality of life and housing prices play a role.

But one reason to conclude that taxes are also a motivator is because the eight states without an income tax are stealing talent from other states. They are Florida, Nevada, New Hampshire, South Dakota, Tennessee, *Texas*, Washington and Wyoming, and each one gained in net domestic migrants. Each one except Florida -- which has sky-high property taxes on new homesteaders -- also ranked in the top 12 of destination states. The nearby table ranks the top five destination and departure states.

Politicians who think taxes don't matter might want to explain the Dakotas. North Dakota ranked second worst in out-migration last year, while South Dakota ranked in the top 10 as a destination. The two are similar in most regards, with one large difference: North Dakota has an income tax and South Dakota doesn't.

Here's another example. The only Pacific Coast state to lose migrant population in 2007 was California, which has the highest state income tax in the nation. This is the continuation of a dismal 10-year performance with nearly one and a half million Golden Staters leaving what was once the premier destination state in America.

Meanwhile, next door, Nevada was second among the states in new families -- and a big percentage of the new arrivals are Californians. Nevada has no income tax. High income Californians can buy a house in Las Vegas for the amount of money they save in three or four years by not paying California income taxes.

One of the few Northeastern states that gained interstate migrants in 2007 was New Hampshire, the only state in New England without an income tax. For the exception that proves the tax rule, we should also mention Vermont, a high-tax state with a big net influx last year. Maybe these folks like the Ben & Jerry's lifestyle, and we also hope they like the government they're paying for.

We invite readers to visit the U-Haul Moving Company Web site (www.uhaul.com), where you can type in a pair of U.S. cities to learn what it costs to move from point A to B. If you want to move, say, from Austin, Texas to Southern California, the moving van will cost you $407 to rent. But if you want to move out of California to Austin, the same van costs $1,831. A move from Dallas to Philadelphia costs $663, versus $2,433 to swap homes in the other direction. The biggest discrepancy we could find was $557 from Nashville, Tennessee to Los Angeles, but the trip costs nearly eight times more, or $4,285, to move to Nashville from L.A.

Our friends on the left say Americans are willing to pay more taxes to get better government services, but their migration patterns reveal the opposite. Governors would be wise to heed these interstate migration trends as they try to cope with what may be one of the worst years in recent memory for state finances. *The people who tend to be the most mobile in American society are the educated and motivated -- in other words, the taxpaying class. Tax them too much, and you'll soon find they aren't there to tax at all.*
---End Quote---


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Harrison
February 13th, 2008, 7:51 am
Granholm couldn't care less. It really is a shame because the first time she ran, I was very excited for her and she has been totally useless for the state. I get very irritated that whenever a company comes in with a couple of hundred jobs that she is right there to take the credit. A couple of hundred jobs doesn't help the tens of thousands of jobs lost here in Michigan.

LPTaxpayer
February 13th, 2008, 1:37 pm
All Granholm is doing is "rewarding" her friends (and potential political voters). She could care less about the average citizen. After all, what are we to her?

I, too, dislike how she claims public credit for a couple of hundred jobs new jobs; but, on the other hand, does absolutely nothing to help or encourage existing companies to keep the jobs that still exist.

She just doesn't care! (It's not that she doesn't understand...it's that she doesn't care!) She's in it for her own political and financial benenfit--plain and simple!




My two cents anyway.

EMUJeff
February 13th, 2008, 3:59 pm
Firstly, I think it is important to understand that she didn't pass these laws on her own in some vaccuum sealed grotto somewhere. She had plenty of help from the others form her party and from those across the aisle.
Secondly, much of the state budget is federally mandated, I believe almost 80%. That doesn't make much more room to cut, which she and the legislature have done a lot of over the last 5 years. Much of which we hear wailing over since peoples benefits have been cut.
Thirdly, this is what happens when we limit terms. No one is beholden, ultimately, to anyone but their party and those who helped install them. Voting them out is no different a solution than we had BEFORE we term limited. I don't see what this change did that was positive, except for lazy voters who wanted to be told when to change horses.
Lastly, there was nothing in DeVos' pro China plan that would have saved a single GOOD job in this state, though there might have been a larger $7.50 an hour service industry.
I think it's high time we built some perspective that only watching these events in the context of decades and a few years and without the dogma of party indocrination can allow for.
JMnotsoHO
ResidentJeff

Aimee Lee
February 13th, 2008, 7:09 pm
Firstly, I think it is important to understand that she didn't pass these laws on her own in some vaccuum sealed grotto somewhere. She had plenty of help from the others form her party and from those across the aisle.
Secondly, much of the state budget is federally mandated, I believe almost 80%. That doesn't make much more room to cut, which she and the legislature have done a lot of over the last 5 years. Much of which we hear wailing over since peoples benefits have been cut.
Thirdly, this is what happens when we limit terms. No one is beholden, ultimately, to anyone but their party and those who helped install them. Voting them out is no different a solution than we had BEFORE we term limited. I don't see what this change did that was positive, except for lazy voters who wanted to be told when to change horses.
Lastly, there was nothing in DeVos' pro China plan that would have saved a single GOOD job in this state, though there might have been a larger $7.50 an hour service industry.
I think it's high time we built some perspective that only watching these events in the context of decades and a few years and without the dogma of party indocrination can allow for.
JMnotsoHO
ResidentJeff

I absolutely agree we have a house full of people who presented these bills to be brought to Granholm. When I went on my rampage about how "her" cut of the funding to my daughters preschool program this fact of her not working alone was brought to my attention.
I am terribly disheartened by the state of Michigan but there are numerous factors of which I feel taxes are a small issue but the loss of jobs is the larger issue.
I love how the article talks about climate and completely contradicts itself by saying that Michigan is one of those states in comparison with South Dakota. Their "climate" is the same if not worse and I don't know about anyone on here some cold days are a whole heck of a lot better and safer than a tornado, landslide or god forbid a hurricane coming through of which have all struck the southern states.
Also if you (generally speaking not at Jeff) think this article isn't slanted please read the last line basically calling those of us who have not finished college people who don't pay taxes and leftists too.
What a line of utter garbage!
Blue collar is what made this state great also know as the middle class I think the mass exodus is none other than those people.

LPTaxpayer
February 15th, 2008, 2:19 am
I do agree...there is more than enough blame to go around. But, Granholm is the CEO of Michigan. And, like a business, the "buck" stops at the CEO's Desk. (Isn't that why she's paid the "big bucks"?)

Aimee Lee
February 15th, 2008, 9:58 am
I do agree...there is more than enough blame to go around. But, Granholm is the CEO of Michigan. And, like a business, the "buck" stops at the CEO's Desk. (Isn't that why she's paid the "big bucks"?)
No one is disagreeing with this fact either but to hold her solely responsible is a cop-out in my opinion. Not only that but you might want to look at other CEO's to "pass the buck" to such as those behind the CEO desk of Chrysler, Delphi, Ford and Chevy. The downfall of these companies and their resistance to change is a prime example of why our state is suffering so much.
Or how about all those health insurance companies who are raping the American companies that are suffering major losses because of the rising cost of healthcare. Those CEO's are sitting pretty too.
You also might want to look at what you purchase and where it's made. Michigan has suffered a loss of so many job to China and other cheap labor overseas. Where do you think all of our manufacturing jobs are going? While many are going to places like Ohio and further south because of cheaper taxes far more jobs are going overseas. I would love to know how someone can compete with jobs that don't require basic human rights to make a profit.
THis is not a one sided issue we are in a crisis and crises don't come about overnight and at the fault of one person nor issue.

EMUJeff
February 15th, 2008, 2:05 pm
BTW, anyone wanting to express themselves to the Governor needn't ask others to do it for them. She can be reached at
Governor Jennifer M. Granholm
P.O. Box 30013
Lansing, Michigan 48909
PHONE: (517) 373-3400
PHONE: (517) 335-7858 - Constituent Services
FAX:(517) 335-6863

Just a suggestion, keep it clean and non-threatening or you may end up closely tied to the justice system.
EMUJeff